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 **Consulting Report **    **Web 2.0 modules to promote engagement in language learning ** Christina (Tina) Wilkinson Student No. 198619499 October 2010 EDPC5023: Innovate Practice and Emerging ICT   = Contents = 1. Scenario 2. Situating the issue a. Australian Government Stance b. The Reality in Secondary Schools <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">3. Addressing the issue <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">a. Comparing the Learners and the Educators <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">b. The Learning Design <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">c. Transforming the Learning Design using Emerging Web 2.0 Technologies <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">4. Challenges <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">5. Evaluation <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">6. Concluding Statment <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">7. References <span style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% #595959; border: 1pt solid windowtext; display: block; padding: 1pt 4pt;"> = <span style="color: white; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">1. Purpose = <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">In Australia, as in most other English speaking countries, the learning of languages other than English does not hold the level of importance and is not valued in the way that such a skill is in other countries. As such, the teaching of languages and cultures in most Australian secondary schools, particularly in the middle years is often met with apathy and a lack of motivation and engagement by students. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">In a bid to begin addressing this issue and in the spirit of an Australian Curriculum for Languages, the Australian Federation of Modern Language Teachers Associations (AFMLTA) is preparing an application for funding for the development of Web 2.0 based learning modules. Web 2.0 tools may include social networks, blogs, wikis and pod casts. The modules are to be made available to all language teachers for use in curriculum design. They will be generic and able to be adapted for specific groups of learners. This report is to accompany and support that application. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The AFMLTA is the national professional body representing all language teachers and languages education in Australia. Their role is to promote language learning by providing a national voice, compiling and distributing information and developing the professional conscience of language teachers. It has strong ties to state Modern Language Teachers Associations (MLTAs) and is hence in an ideal situation to coordinate and facilitate the proposals made in this report. ( <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[|http://www.afmlta.asn.au] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">) <span style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% #595959; border: 1pt solid windowtext; display: block; padding: 1pt 4pt;"> = <span style="color: white; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">2. Situating the issue = <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">a. Australian Government Stance <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Across many decades, the Australian federal government has supported languages education through policy and publications. It’s most recent publication, which deals specifically with this topic is the // National Statement for Languages Education in Australian Schools, National Plan for Languages Education in Australian Schools 2005–2008. // This two-part document underlines the commitment by all Ministers of Education to quality languages education and importantly, discusses the many benefits of language learning: it speaks of such elements as enrichment, communication and connection, multiple perspectives and understanding through intercultural awareness and competence. Reference is also made to the contributions -cultural, economic, strategic, global – which language learners will be able to make to Australia’s future. Personal advantages are also stressed. These include enhanced career prospects, increased cognitive development and self awareness. In addition, the Statement recognises Australia’s existing linguistic and cultural heritage and the need for us to build on and enhance this. The review acknowledges the challenges of having qualified staff, quality resources and the need for full commitment within school communities for languages education to become an integral part of the core curriculum in Australian schools. The plan contained within the document seeks to find ways forward in addressing these challenges. Strategies include redevelopment of training and learning plans, professional development, sharing information, making connections, on-going evaluation and strong advocacy for languages education across all levels and sectors of the community. The 2009-2012 quadrennium of the National Statement and Plan for Languages Education in Australian Schools is still being developed. <span style="color: black; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The policy commitment to languages education has continued through the //Melbourne Declaration on Educational Goals for Young Australian//, (December 2008) which named languages as a Key Learning Area, and also through its inclusion in phase 2 of the development of an Australian Curriculum. While a draft has been prepared for the //Shape// //<span style="color: black; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">of the Australian Curriculum: Languages, no public consultation has yet taken place. //  <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">b. The Reality in Secondary Schools <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">While there is certainly a theoretical commitment to languages education by the Federal Government, as outlined above, the reality in Australian schools has not seen marked improvement as a result of policies. <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Two recent reports reflecting this reality: //<span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Second Languages and Australian Schooling, Joseph Lo Bianco, 2009 //<span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">and // Attitudes Towards the Study of Languages in Australian Schools, 2007 //, raise a range of issues. <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">In general terms, there appears to be <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 115%;">a “ <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">deep and persistent malaise (afflicting) language education in Australia” (LoBianco, 2009). This refers not only to the learners themselves, but also to many other stakeholders in this scenario, including parents, other teachers and members of school leadership teams. This //malaise// reflects a long-held attitude in English-speaking countries that English native speakers do not need to learn other languages, as everyone speaks English. While this is a vast exaggeration, the viewpoint persists, hence rendering the status of language learning as one lacking importance or relevance. This combined with brief time allocations, a lack of qualified teachers and support for languages in school, often leads to less than ideal learning programs and disengaged learners. The mastery of a second language requires consistent application and perseverance, a state which is rarely achieved in secondary schools, as a result of any combination of the afore mentioned factors. Those students, who are motivated, are often confronted by the frustration of being in a learning environment with unmotivated and sometimes disruptive students. This can lead to a lack of rigour and hence achievement for these students. <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">In addition, LoBianco refers to the challenges of intercultural learning. On the one hand, Australian society is by its very nature a multicultural and multi-lingual society. The richness and opportunities that this offers are often overlooked and under-accessed. On the other hand, some schools may be geographically or culturally isolated and learners therefore do not always have authentic opportunities and resources for experiencing and reflecting on culture or using and learning languages. <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">In recent times, there has also been a certain degree of conflict between the government’s inward focus on Australia and the growing need for a truly global focus. Further highlighted in the reports is the stagnating influence of ever changing policy regarding languages education and the apparent “ <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">discontinuity between political vision and political will.” (Attitudes, 2007) <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Amidst the challenges outlined, the reports do acknowledge pockets of successful, high quality languages and cultures programs and learning. It is the lack of consistency on all fronts, which appears to be the issue. <span style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% #595959; border: 1pt solid windowtext; display: block; padding: 1pt 4pt;"> = <span style="color: white; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-weight: normal;">3. Addressing the Issue  = <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">It is evident that the issue of motivation and engagement in languages education is Australian schools is multi-facetted and complex. This report seeks to address a portion of the issue, namely the “malaise” amongst the learners themselves, by developing models for relevant, authentic and therefore engaging learning designs. It is proposed that this could be achieved by the innovative use of Web 2 .0 technologies. Research reveals that the use of these technologies can be effective as a result of their congruence with various pedagogical theories, concepts and practices, which will be discussed in the following sections of this report. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">a. Comparing the learners and the educators <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">In order to achieve relevance, authenticity and a greater level of engagement in languages education, it is essential to have an understanding of who the learners are and what their life worlds consist of. This will naturally vary from location to location, from school to school, from class to class and indeed from individual to individual. Still, some generalisations can be made about the teenagers of the early 21st Century, particularly with regard to technology, the ways in which they like to learn and the skills they will need for their future. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The majority of our students today can be described as “digital natives” (Prensky, 2001). They were born onto a world filled with technology, such as mobile phones, iPods, video games, internet, instant messaging and social networks. These technologies form part of their daily lives and are an unquestioned part of their social interaction and communication with peers. They are connected through technology as often as possible. It is argued that this type of exposure to technology has had a notable impact on how our students’ brains function. They think and process information in a totally different way to their teachers (and parents), who for the most part are considered “digital immigrants” (Prensky, 2001), that is they have not grown up with the same technologies and have had to learn their language as adults. Many are still reluctant to learn it, a pivotal point of contention, if language teachers are to link successfully with the life worlds of today’s language learners. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The learners of today are also social learners. Their lives are constantly networked and they are accustomed to gaining knowledge this way, be it from other people or from the internet. Tapping this preference and guiding them to use it for successful learning will be essential for 21st century language learning. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Many teachers still prefer the old paradigm of teaching and learning, that of instructionism, they see their role as passing on knowledge, as a font of information. This approach is very much at odds with both the learning preferences of their students and the needs of learners in the 21st Century. Teachers need to move forward and embrace the paradigms of contructivism and connectivism (Barnes and Tyan, 2007). Both these paradigms of learning see educators as a mediator or a facilitator of learning. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">b. The Learning Design <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">In the context described, it seems clear that learning designs for languages education need to include certain features in order to engage students. <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Learners of today need to see the relevance of languages education. This may be achieved by linking learning experiences with their own life worlds and encouraging them to look outward to expand their viewpoints and experiences. The learning design must provide opportunities for authentic communication and intercultural experiences and connections, in order to bring the language and its associated culture(s) to life. This will involve expanding the learning communities beyond the confines of the classroom, class members and class time and communicating and collaborating with native speakers and/or other learners of the language being taught. <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The learning design should be student centred and provide opportunities for the on-going development of important 21st century skills and capabilities. Learning experiences would include project and group work, problem solving, critical thinking, creativity and reflection. <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The overall aims of the learning design should be: · <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">to capture students’ interest in the language and culture in question · <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">to enable students to appreciate the intrinsic value of their language learning · <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">to provide opportunities to achieve and experience success both in communicative language skills and in intercultural understanding, and thereby build their level of self efficacy · <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> to gradually develop a deeper cognitive engagement in each learner. <span style="color: #231f20; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">(Blumenfeld et al, 2009) = <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">c. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: 115%;">Transforming the Learning Design using Emerging Web 2.0 Technologies  = <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Web 2.0 technologies are part of the second generation of the internet, which allows even those with little or no technical expertise to participate, collaborate and share material via the World Wide Web. These technologies continue to be developed and modified every day. They include tools such as blogs, wikis, social networking sites, pod casts and mash ups. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Just as the technologies themselves have transformed the ways in which the internet is used, it is proposed that these technologies are ideal for transforming the learning designs for 21st Century languages education and thereby engaging students in their learning. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Rationale <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">As described above, most of our secondary school learners in Australia are immersed in the digital world in their daily lives. The use of emerging technologies in their language learning would seem then an obvious way of linking and relating to their life worlds. Students use social networking sites such as //Facebook// every day to connect and collaborate. It is a motivating step then to include online social networking in their learning experiences. Brown and Adler (2008) refer to the power of social learning, that knowledge and meaning are best constructed through social interaction, participation and collaboration. Learning and practising language through real social interaction with speakers of the language being learned is certainly a much more powerful and engaging experience than listening to a CD and repeating phrases and vocabulary. The same is true of developing intercultural awareness. Engaging in a collaborative project through a social network or on a wiki to learn about culture and experience social norms is certainly more likely to be valued by learners than reading about it in a textbook. These means of extending the learning community beyond the classroom also enable what has been described as “legitimate peripheral participation” (eg. Brown and Adler (2008) in a “community of practice”. Native speakers of a language may be considered experts in their field. By observing and listening to interactions between native speakers, Australian language learners can gain much, both linguistically and culturally. The technology allows the bridging of geographical distance to bring the subject to life. Students become aware from first-hand experience that the whole world does not speak perfect English, that the learning of language takes time and persistence, that culture is sometimes embedded in language and that there is a great sense of achievement involved in being able to communicate with others in their own language. The Australian students can also play the reverse role by modelling and sharing their own linguistic skills and cultural knowledge through the collaborations. These types of authentic experiences are engaging and deeply valuable. Indeed, Brown and Adler (2008) speak of igniting learners’ passion for learning. Similarly, utilising Web 2.0 technologies to increase motivation is consistent with self determination theory (SDT). This theory suggests that all humans have the need for competence, relatedness and autonomy. (Alm, 2006). The concept of relatedness supports the idea of learning being social and that learning is optimised through interaction in a learning environment which challenges learners to move slightly beyond their current state of knowledge: Krashen’s input + 1 (referred to in Alm 2006). <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 115%;">Using Web 2.0 tools allows learners to construct their own knowledge and meaning, with guidance if needed from the teacher as a co-participant in the collaborations. They also allow the development of students’ “autonomy, responsibility, and intentionality” (Dunlop and Lowenthal, preprint), as they make decisions about and mould their own learning experiences. Through these experiences, students refine their ability to think critically, solve problems and reflect on their own thinking and learning. This empowerment - or the encouragement of autonomy in the language of SDT - of our language learners will certainly stimulate the development of cognitive engagement and skills for lifelong learning.
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<span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: 115%;">Description
<span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The proposed innovation is to develop learning modules infused with Web 2.0 technologies as models of 21st century language learning designs, suitable for 21st Century learners. The modules would be generic, with the intention that individual teachers could take a module and develop and/or adapt it to suit the language, school and learners they are involved with. The modules would not be complete learning designs, but rather project ideas which can be wound into a school based learning design. Sample module outlines <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">eg. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">http://www.wikispaces.com/ <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[|https://sites.google.com] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Google maps <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Voicethread <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[] || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">This project involves a class sharing photos of their daily life with a class in a country where the target language is spoken. The images are shared on a wiki and may be accompanied by captions, or lengthier explanations, depending on the language level of the groups. The wiki might be set up by topic, for example: family, pets, house, town, school, hobbies and free time, friends. Students from both classes add to each page and comment on and ask questions about each other’s images. Even at the most basic level, the cultures of the countries are brought to life through the images and may be compared and contrasted. Contact between class members can also be encouraged through the discussion tab and message function on the wiki. Wikis are most suitable for such a collaborative project, as they allow on-going editing and the sharing of ideas and information in a variety of formats. Classes could embed Google maps to indicate their locations and perhaps share video files which can be embedded on the pages of the wiki. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">An alternative to a wiki would be the Web 2.0 tool Voicethread. This tool is a multimedia platform which allows the collaborative sharing of images, videos and documents. A conversation is held around the visuals, this can be spoken, written and drawn. || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">eg. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[|http://www.blogger.com] || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The class is divided into groups of about 5 or 6 and asked to read a book or a short story or a poem or an article selected from a range of items. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">On a class blog, the teacher types a prompt post for each group to begin discussion and reflection about the reading material and the topics represented. The initial prompt for each text may be to check and/or guide comprehension. Each member of the group is then required to contribute to discussion, respond to the replies of other group members and ask questions as necessary. The teacher monitors discussion, adding his/her own thoughts if deemed important and eventually further prompts to move discussion forward. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Students would be encouraged to read posts from other groups as well, to broaden their insight into the topic. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The blog could also be shared with other learners to work collaboratively on a text and/or topic. || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">eg. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[] || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The teacher creates a private social network and invites their own class(es) and those from a school in a country where the target language is spoken to join the network. Initially, students spend time getting to know others by reading profiles, leaving messages on each other’s “wall”, using the chat room or sending private messages. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">In the second phase of the project, students create interest groups within the network to discuss and compare a topic of their choice related to youth culture in their respective countries. They share photos, videos and links, as well as taking part in discussion forums, initiated by group members. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The aim is intercultural learning and creating opportunities to practise language skills. An agreement must be reached on when each language will be used. By the end of the project, each group (or individuals) should create a product about their chosen topic. This might be a blog written to reflect their growing intercultural awareness. It could also be a video documentary film, containing interviews and commentary. Alternatively, the group could collaboratively write a report using <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[|Google Docs] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">. || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">eg <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[|http://www.podomatic.com] || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">This project involves students in creating a series of podcasts in the target language to be aired on an internet radio station, or via a podcasting site. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Topics should reflect student interests and be relevant and appropriate for a broader audience. These might range from the environment, or what there is to do and see in your town/city, to fashion to sporting events. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Feedback would be invited form listeners and responses to the feedback integrated into the next podcast/broadcast. || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">The modules could be made available to teachers through membership of a social network created for the purpose. Mentors would be available to guide teachers’ learning. This would model constructivist and connectivist pedagogies and allow teachers to immerse themselves in the types of activities they would then be developing for the students. <span style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% #595959; border: 1pt solid windowtext; display: block; padding: 1pt 4pt;"> = <span style="color: white; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">4. Challenges = <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">While there is certainly ample evidence to suggest that the use of Web 2.0 technologies to support language learning can lead to increased motivation and engagement, there are certainly a number of challenges to be faced. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Firstly, there are the practical considerations. While it is certainly improving, not all schools have sufficient infrastructure to support the regular use of computers and the internet for learning. This can also be exacerbated by poor hardware maintenance, low bandwidth and a lack of adequate technical support in the classroom. These elements can lead to frustration for teachers and students and lead to a lack of momentum and continuity in project work. Collaboration and participation can and should certainly continue beyond the bounds of class time and rooms, but teachers can not always assume that students have good internet access at home. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Finding project partners can also been seen as an obstacle by some teachers. Encouraging of professional networking will go some way towards easing this difficulty. In addition the use of on-line platforms like Epals ( <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[|http://www.epals.com] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">) or eLanguages ( <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">[|http://www.elanguages.org] <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">) can help in locating teachers and classes in other countries of towns who are keen to make connections and collaborate on projects. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">One of the biggest challenges faced when proposing the use of emerging technologies is still that of teacher resistance. The resistance can stem from a number of sources: a lack of technical skill and knowledge, a perceived lack of time to rethink and redevelop curriculum or sometimes even a conviction that the old instructionist approach to teaching and learning is still the most valid. Professional learning in the areas of technology and 21st century learning sciences is the key to confronting this issue. A clear commitment and the provision of time by school leadership teams are also essential for the success of this approach. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Finally, it is essential that learners are clear about learning goals and the rationale for activities. Without this shared vision, learners are unlikely to see the value in or participate fully in activities and projects and consequently a true level of engagement will into be reached. The solutions to this is clear and open communication, the negotiation of learning goals and approaches and scaffolding at appropriate stages during the learning process. <span style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% #595959; border: 1pt solid windowtext; display: block; padding: 1pt 4pt;"> = <span style="color: white; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">5. Evaluation = <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Evaluation of the effectiveness of the Web 2.0 learning modules in increasing student engagement in their language learning will be both formative and summative. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Formative evaluation will be carried out by teachers themselves by means of regular classroom observations in the classroom and also in the various online environments to gauge progress and relative engagement. Observations should be recorded, perhaps on a teacher blog and should lead to tweaking of projects and the learning design as a whole. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Summative assessment will take the form of class surveys, both before the use of the Web 2.0 modules and after. A pro-forma will be developed which can be adapted to specific classes by the teacher. Interviews will also be carried out with a selection of students and teachers, which represent different types of environments and languages. This will provide a balance of both quantitative and qualitative data for analysis. <span style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% #595959; border: 1pt solid windowtext; display: block; padding: 1pt 4pt;"> =<span style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% #595959; border: medium none; margin-left: 18pt; padding: 0cm; text-indent: -18pt;"><span style="color: white; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">6. Concluding Statement = <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">This report puts forward a viable and innovative method of addressing the issue of lacking student motivation and engagement in languages education in Australia. <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">important to embed the use of technology in clear pedagogical constructs <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">need to use evaluation to continually tweak learning designs <span style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% #595959; border: 1pt solid windowtext; display: block; padding: 1pt 4pt;"> = <span style="color: white; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">7. References =
 * <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"> Module || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Technologies  || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Project Outline  ||
 * <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">A. My place, your place || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">wiki
 * <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">B. Literature circles || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">blog
 * <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">C. Youth culture || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">social network
 * <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">D. Internet radio broadcasts or podcast || <span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">podcast